Paula
Welcome to Let's Fermata! This is the second episode and I'm here with David Suleimán. We've been trying to start this episode for over an hour, so we hope this time it works. The third time's the charm. Well, David, I've known him since I was around 12 years old. We studied together in high school long before we knew we were going to be musicians. And in fact, we started spending more time together because we both joined the school choir, and that's when we started to have a love for music. Even so, I didn't know what a cello was at that time. I didn't play it until I was 15, when I started, and that's when I discovered it. But, I really had my first musical encounters and David is part of them. So, for me it's nice to have him here today because it really is a friendship that comes before music, and at some point we kind of met again, but the greatest memories are always before being musicians, right? So, well, I wanted you to start by telling me a little bit about yourself as a saxophonist, which is your, I would say now, main instrument. A bit about your time in school when you played guitar and sang... I wanted you to start with a little introduction.
David
First of all, it's a pleasure to be here. We've been at this for a while and it's really going to happen. I promise you. This will be... good... because this is for the family. I can't say the word I was thinking of...But yes, we met in high school at the UHS. We met when we weren't musicians yet. I believe we met in Pitufo's math class where you called me fat in English and thought it was cute.
Paula
That's not true. Don't say that.
David
Hey, I want everyone to know who you are. At that time I was playing guitar because when I was 12 they gave me a guitar. I always loved music, and so I started with all that. When I got to the UHS, Nestor, the one who gave Paula and me choir, told me: "We have a lot of guitars, do you want to play cuatro?" And I said: "What... what is a cuatro?" And he told me in other words. He didn't say it like that, but he said: "Basically the cuatro is the leader of the plucked stringed ensemble." And I said: "How so?" "Yes, because the guitars are always doing chan can can chan, can, but the cuatros are playing the melody." And since I seem to have a huge ego, I said: "Oh, well I'm going to be up there in front. Well, let's do this." And so I gravitated to the cuatro. Later I started playing other instruments, and I started to take music seriously when I picked up the alto saxophone at 16, almost 17 years old. But we'll talk about that later.
Paula
Well, yes, I wanted you to tell the story of how you chose it because I really didn't remember this story. A few days ago David told me this story again, and I felt like... wow. That was a very big responsibility, and I didn't know you were going to take it so seriously that it would mark the paths you have taken now in your life, right? So if you can share how you came to the saxophone.
David
Well, it's all your fault. If anything goes wrong for me, I want it to remain on your conscience, and I don't want you to be able to live with your... with your conscience. My dad has always worked in Culebra. He used to work part-time and now he works full-time. So I went with this incredible guy who was one of dad's students. -Dad taught diving classes.- And he went with us that weekend, and I heard for the first time in my life, I heard jazz and bossa nova. And I had never heard that in my life. I heard that, and I got into it. I loved it, and I listened to a ton of records that whole weekend. A three-day long weekend. At that time, well, we were like a little trio: Camila, Paula, and I. -A little shout out to Camila.- I called them on a conference call and I was like, "Look, I don't know whether to play saxophone or trumpet, but I really want to play one of those two. I want to play one of those two, and I can't play both for x and x reasons. So I need to play one of the two." And basically, they both agreed to make my life miserable, and they were like, "You're already a pretty loud guy. Your personality is kind of out there. Turn it down. Pick up the saxophone so it kind of counteracts how annoying you are." And I was like, "How nice to be able to count on such honest friends." And well, basically I took the saxophone and with him, with Quique, dad's student, who today is a... he has always been a multidisciplinary person who is doing really well... Quique gave me my first saxophone lesson. I think he gave me like two or three lessons. After that, I learned on my own. He gave me two lessons, to be exact. After that, I learned, I mean, I got really involved. I got a really bad fever. I played for almost a year, it broke, and I didn't get to play the saxophone again until I was like 23. Something like that.
Paula
Wow, it was quite a long time. Well, yes, I wanted to more or less say... David and I were together until 11th grade, and in 12th grade, I decided that I was going to leave school. Super treacherous because I was going to go to the Escuela Libre de Música...
David
Super, super.
Paula
... (super) I was going to go to the Escuela Libre de Música, so I left my class of... that I had since seventh grade, and I changed schools. But, David, you continued studying, let's say... you continued on the path to the "iupi" (University of Puerto Rico). And then later on you made the treacherous change of moving (of course) to the Conservatory. So, first I wanted to ask... what did you study at the UPR?, and how did you make the transition to the Conservatory later on?
David
I started with computer science because I loved it. I still love it. It's really kind of nerdy background. I really liked everything that had to do with technology and video games. Again, super nerdy... and I loved that world a lot. Plus I loved math. And when I learned about the Computer Science bachelor's degree it was basically like math but with programming. And I started studying that basically. And then, when I finally got the money to fix the saxophone, the repairman tells me: “with that same money, with so much more, you can buy a tenor.” And I said: “a tenor? I have always played alto. Let’s see what happens.” I bought that tenor and things went to hell. Forgive me, right, the families at home. Um… I automatically dropped out completely. I think I was at the “iupi” for a few more months, and I dropped out completely and auditioned for the Conservatory and started practicing. Like, something came over me that… That motivation, an excitement that led me to the Conservatory- to the preparatory school-and after the preparatory school, well, I went to Berklee. But I imagine we’ll talk about that later. (hehe, yes)
Paula
But in the… I mean, in the Conservatory, you did get an undergrad degree, right?
David
Not at all.
Paula
Or was it just the preparatory school along with your other credits?
David
I went to preparatory school. I think preparatory school and one semester, I don't know... I don't know if it was preparatory school and one semester. But I spent more time in preparatory school... I went to preparatory school during the summer. Because how it worked was that they gave me solfege because I didn't know how to read music. I didn't know... I didn't know anything about that. And then, after that, I took solfege to a good level that summer. But I couldn't read the bass clef, and because of the bass clef - another shout-out to Guidobaldi, greetings maestro! Well, Guidobaldi told me: "No, man, no. You have to... You have to read bass clef." And I was like: "But why? If it's not relevant, I'm going to play the saxophone." "You have to read the bass clef." And so then I had to take a whole year of preparatory school. But I was at the "iupi" for a long time. I was at the “iupi” for about two and a half years, I think.
Paula
But, I mean, you didn't finish your undergrad? I mean, what you were studying at the UPR? (Nothing) Did you just completely change your major?
David
Everything. A mess. I never finished anything. I never finish anything in my life. I start everything, but I never finish anything. No, it's a lie (that's not true) but... um... I left high school hanging, and I left the Conservatory hanging. I left everything, everything hanging.
Paula
And what did you do? I mean, how did you get to Berklee? I mean...
David
That face. That... I saw that face you made (no!) damn!
Paula
No. (Yes) It's simply because (mmm) I'm learning about you. I mean... I'll share here that David and I have (it was a risk)... David and I have like an annual conversation. I think that in the last year, we have broken that habit.
David
Yes, it got out of control.
Paula
And now we're talking more. But in general, it was always like, well, everyone lives their own life, and once a year on our birthdays like: "Look, happy birthday, and oh, by the way, this is everything that's happened this past year."
David
Of course.
Paula
And that's why now that you mention that, I say: "Wow, I mean, at that time I was wrapped up in my own things, whether I was going to go study abroad, etc. So, no... I didn't have this like your... timeline in mind. So I was asking you, when did you go to Berklee?... I mean, because you did a master's degree at Berklee... what was it like, basically, your undergrad?
David
I did my undergrad first at Berklee.
Paula
Oh, okay... oh, wow! I mean, you did everything at Berklee?
David
Yes. There, I finished what I started in Puerto Rico and... and then I did my master's degree at Berklee. But it took me a long time. (Did they validate some credits for you?) They validated a few credits, but it was stupid. They always came up with a technicality that: "no, that credit is this... no... that if "do you speak English?" Me: "Do I speak English? Ai spiki gu inglich! Ai spiki un ingli cabrón." Hey, excuse me. Hey, we haven't talked about the rules. Can I speak like that or not...? (speaks freely) You have to tell me.
Paula
Speak freely, speak freely.
David
That's good... damn, because this is hard. Hey... bye! Let's go on. They validated a few things for me, but it wasn't anything out of this world, really.
Paula
You went to study in Boston, and that change was very early, so to speak. You did your bachelor's and master's degree outside of Puerto Rico.
David
It was really long man. It was too long. I'm telling you this because of other things that maybe we'll talk about... we'll talk about or not later or in the same podcast. But my time in Boston was really long. I'm not saying it as something bad necessarily. It's just that as a fact, as a piece of information, it was... it was long.
Paula
And how was that change for you when you went to Boston? Outside of music, personally? I mean...
David
Well, look, personally I wasn't... I was really, really intense with music. I was really pumped up, I was practicing, and that kind of overshadowed the rest. So, I wasn't really paying attention to the culture shock or the different things that are done in Boston, or how boring Boston can be. What I was was just really pumped up that I was training with the teachers that I dreamed I could take classes with... that I don't... you know, people that you listen to? You know what I mean? It's like... who is that girl? Jacqueline Du Pré? That you can take classes with her in person? Well, if you can take classes with her, get scared, right? But...
Paula
Of course.
David
Umm... but that you can take a class in person with people that you've listened to, that you've been listening to on your iPod since you were little... that is surreal. And so, I was really pumped up about that, plus I went with a really good friend of mine from the Conservatory. We both went at the same time. His name is Michael Gonzalez... guitarist. I don't call him an incredible guitarist because that's a lie. The guy is awesome. The guy plays... the guy, he's ridiculous. Um... an incredible musician. I went with him, and we had like a brotherhood in which the two of us held each other accountable in the practice room. Like: "Look, dude, did you check this Coltrane thing? Did you check that thing? Yeah, this... ah, but Coltrane in this era does this. Oh, but look, I'm checking this out..." And like the conversations on the way to eat Chinese food, it was all music, music, music, music, music. So I didn't realize how much of a change... how many cultural changes there were in Boston until Michael left. Another one who... another one who left. Because that's what you guys do, right? You go to prestigious places. You went to La Libre, and he went to the Manhattan School of Music. I think that guy is... damn, that guy is really a badass. Michael Gonzalez, look him up. And so yeah, man, he left and that's when I kind of realized the changes and they weren't... I didn't like them that much. Like Boston as a city. It's nice to visit. It's beautiful. But to live, for me... I know people who love to live there. But I can't, I can't. Also, it's really expensive. Super expensive.
Paula
And how did you end up at Berklee? I mean, you... I understand that you had a scholarship, but was that also in your undergrad? Or was it more in the master's degree? Or both?
David
Both. Different scholarships. Basically I got there... like everyone else in Puerto Rico, I auditioned at Berklee in Puerto Rico, the summer camps in Carolina. They keep changing. Then they changed them to Sagrado and then I think they changed them to the Libre de Caguas now. That camp was cool because it cost 50 dollars a week and I found a way to not have to pay for it. I found the trick and I went to the camp and pop got a scholarship the first time. They gave me a scholarship that was supposed to be good, but because of my financial situation, I couldn't go unless it was a full scholarship. It's not because I'm a superstar. It's not because I think I deserve a full scholarship because really, I don't. I didn't feel that way at all. I basically auditioned when I auditioned for the Conservatory. The Conservatory accepts me for my undergrad and they give me a scholarship. I finished the preparatory school and they gave me the complete scholarship. The deal was basically... the guy said to me: "How much do you need? We're going to give you this and the FAFSA, the Pell Grant will cover the rest. And the Pell Grant covered the rest, and I said: "That's cool and I'm very grateful, I swear. But, the tuition alone is really expensive. And I'm super grateful, but living in Boston is really expensive. Is there any way?" Then they told me to apply for the Latin Grammy scholarship. I auditioned, and they gave me the Latin Grammy scholarship. With that scholarship I was able to spend the years I was in Boston covering my tuition mostly. Because then other things happened that... that weren't what one had expected. But I studied and worked at Berklee. And... I looked for ways to pay for that absurdly expensive rent and those living costs. But yes, basically I went with a scholarship. The scholarship is called the Berklee Scholarship in Puerto Rico and the Latin Grammy scholarship. And then in the master's degree, there is a program called the Global Jazz Institute that takes 20 students a year. And if you are one of the 20 that are accepted, you automatically get a full ride.
Paula
I wanted to talk about your master's degree because I know that you did a master's degree in education and composition, right? And two things. One, why didn't you do one in performance? And... then I would also like you to talk a little about the thesis that you wrote in your master's degree. I mean, your project.
David
Yes. Well, I basically... there are periods, right? Like every musician, with uncertainty and one feels like shit about oneself. For me, it was a bit shocking to fall into a program like that because I thought it was kind of selective, and there was a lot of comparison. So, I fell into a similar program in my undergrad. Because of a lot of insecurities and other things, I've always been like plan b, plan c, plan d, and having all the things just in case, a fail-safe, a safety net. I, or the idea of me teaching, I hated it to death. Completely. I didn't want to be a teacher. I had a vision of this... However, that program is super interdisciplinary. It's not that the program is just one thing. You choose based on how many credits you want to take, you select, you shape it. So first I started writing because a jazz musician named Terrence Blanchard said that he started to find his voice as a musician when he started writing. It's totally cool, it's cool to do a lot of technical things, and it's cool that you're the best player in a wind section. A lot of things are cool, but your personal voice as a band leader...a jazz quintet, whatever proposal you have, your voice solidifies when you bring your compositions. That often comes from your background, like... many times they sound... I had to be a bit cliché, but if you're Latino and you grew up with the clave, it's like... it's a little bit like that. It's not going to be a super traditional guaguanco, but it's going to have a little bit of that. So it sounds super cheesy, but discovering that part of me that I had never explored because I had never written anything before the master's degree... I mean, I haven't written... I mean, you know, I was afraid of that. Because I was one of those who thought that writing - I think I still feel it a little bit - that writing is something you're born with. So it's super different from playing as I thought. That was my old point of view. I thought that playing was something that you, however many hours you put in the practice room, that's how it's going to be reflected. You put in hours in the practice room, discipline, and sweat, and that's how it goes, the music will come out, and it will speak for itself. Well, when it comes to writing, I used to say: "No man, writing is an innate quality." So I always had a bad feeling about it and decided not to tackle it until I had my master's degree. That's when I started taking composition classes, and I started taking education classes. When I took my first education class, everything changed for me. The guy basically told me in other words: "Dude, teachers take stupid things too seriously. If your student comes and you, I mean, there are ways. You have to see your students' things. If you... if their goals are to succeed in music, well, yes, you have to push them, and you have to be there. But if it's a kid whose parents are rich and he doesn't want to be there, and you're upset with him because it's obvious that he didn't practice, you're wasting your energy on him. You know, he just doesn't want to be there. The biggest win that you can make in that class is that he falls in love with music. He doesn't want to be there. He doesn't want to take piano lessons, and you don't want to be there because of his attitude. But if you can at least make him fall in love with music, he doesn't have to be a musician, but that's all, that's a big win." And that was the introduction of the class. And I said: what the heck! This bastard, damn, man. And I asked the teacher, I was very honest: "but, isn't that like a mediocre goal?" And he tells me: "I like how you're thinking, of course, that's what one would think, but the kid doesn't want to be a saxophonist. The kid doesn't want to be Coltrane." And I was like: "What the heck!" And I decided to continue that path of education. So those were the two things I focused on in the master's degree.
Paula
But, can you share a little about your thesis? The composition project itself...
David
My thesis project was based on mental health. I've had my little dances with that topic. And specifically coming out of the master's degree I was at a point where my mental health was quite uncertain. It was a little hazy. There were a lot of things going on at the same time that I was doing the master's degree, and I did the master's degree just when COVID ended. I mean, you come out of two years of being locked up, and everyone was feeling it at that moment, like... you know, socially you are no longer who you were. The world was very strange. And on top of that, the things that happened to me in my master's degree that didn't... it wasn't a very favorable environment for my mental health. I said, "This is a topic that has always been very personal to me. Let me do it, my thesis on de-stigmatizing mental health, and kind of talk about this. So it's super curious that we're on a podcast about... right? But basically, right?, someone born in Latin islands, in Puerto Rico, in the Caribbean... that's not talked about. When you ask your grandfather something like: "Look l... don’t know... I'm sad, my girlfriend left me." "Oh, take two shots, and you'll be like new." Do you understand me? "Don't be a pu**y." Literally. I mean, outdated terms. I'm saying what they say. “Stop the nonsense, (of course) grow up. "Look, I feel like I'm anxious and with this." "Oh, but you're like that. Are you kind of shshsh?" And you’re like... "What? I don't... am I crazy? Is that what you're asking?" "Yes. I didn't know you were crazy." "I’m not crazy, man. I'm telling you that I simply feel this." And so I started to attack this topic, and the themes of my compositions...one of them is called "In Your Head." One of them is called "Past and Future." Past and Future is basically a theme in which the melody sounds super lethargic, super like living in the past, nostalgia, slow lethargy. But in the whole composition, there is no downbeat. It is always anticipated by an eight note, by an eighth note. That is the future, right? It is anticipating things. And in colloquial terms, well, dumbed down version, to live in the future is to be an anxious person. If you live in the past longing for what you left behind or what you could have done, you are a person, well, depressed. Again in very stupid terms. But I made a couple of themes, and I made the thesis on that topic that was very important to me. It continues to be very important to me.
Paula
Yes, and I wanted to... well, talk... I had already asked you if we could talk a little more about this topic. But for me, since it has been important, well, about your mental health, what we've talked about is the anxiety attacks because I've shared with you that I... I mean, I have that too. I don't feel like I considered these to be anxiety attacks. I thought it was just nerves, and that's it. Because I wasn't educated about it either, and then when I continued to investigate, I realized: "Wait, this isn't normal, right?" It's one thing to be nervous and be able to do things with that fear and another thing is that...
David
Of course.
Paula
...you become totally paralyzed. So I wanted you to tell me a little about your experience and what the process has been like for you. I mean, I don't know if it's something that is merely expressed in music, or if it's something that has affected you in your daily life as well.
David
It has affected my daily life a lot. Of course. Once I had a really bad panic attack on a plane, and I since, I have tried to avoid traveling alone. Many times I make arrangements, like if I was in Boston, we were 50 Puerto Ricans in a group chat, and I asked: "Look, who's going to Puerto Rico for Christmas?" "Oh, I'm going on Jet Blue flight B186." "Oh, okay." And I took the same flight. They offered me a tour in Mexico, I said: "Should I go with my band? Should I go with my quintet?" They told me: "No, no, no. The band is going to be Mexican, and you arrive, and you rehearse with them so that it's more cost-effective, you get a couple of pesos. Everything is going to be paid, obviously. It's going to be good money, we're going to put you in all the clubs." And I told him: "Look, man, I really can't do that right now because I can't travel alone. So I missed a really good opportunity and that's one of several examples of things that I've... that I've shaped my life around. And now I'm trying not to let it... stop shaping it and try to, to... to do this. But it took me a long time. The desire to get out of that started when I finished my master's degree and when I left Boston. When I left Boston it was like being reborn. I'm not saying that Boston is a bad city. I just think that for me, for my circumstances and the things that I remember, and the things that happened, maybe it wasn't like what I needed. But if you really like Boston, go there, stay there (Of course) and chill.
Paula
Of course. Afterwards, right? You were in Boston. You left. Did you go to Puerto Rico or did you immediately go to New York?
David
Yes. I was in Puerto Rico for the two years of the COVID lockdown. I was in Puerto Rico for those two years, which was the two years I was between my undergrad and my master's degree. After the lockdown, I went to do my master's degree, and after my master's degree, I went straight to New York.
Paula
How has it been? I mean, do you feel better in New York? I mean, how has your experience been?
David
Moving is always a bad trip. Moving is bad. Nobody wants to move. Moving is a fu**ing mess. You don't want to ask your friends if they help you, because nobody wants to. I mean, what the heck? I feel like asking a friend is putting them in a very difficult position. Because it's a huge favor. It's like disgusting, nobody wants to do it. It's messy. Moving is a whole thing. But, New York has been... New York has a lot of great things and it has a lot of bad things. But, I like it infinitely more than Boston. And the opportunities and the people you meet literally walking on the street. Suddenly you're like: "Maestro!" Literally last week I met an incredible bass player. I'm not going to say the name because I don't want to jinx it, but the guy gave me his number. (Uh-huh) I wasn't expecting him to give me his number, I was just talking to him. He's a renowned bass player in the jazz scene, and he said, "Man, call me." They are these institutions, the groups he plays with, these institutions like the Puerto Rico Symphony Orchestra that have medical insurance and pay for rehearsals and everything. And he said, "Look, what if you come for a rehearsal?" And I said, "Maestro, I'll go where you tell me." Because rehearsals are paid. You go there, you go to rehearsal, pap, $250 for a rehearsal. Damn, man, just for reading and hanging out with people I admire? So, that kind of thing happens in New York and I've never seen it happen in Boston or in other places I've been. Low is super low in New York, but man, the things that come out and can come out, and the opportunities if you are in the right mindset…But that has been, that has been my... my goal. My goal has been to work from the inside out. Fix what I need to fix physically, mentally, spiritually, so that I can then do the work outwards. And from there comes the motivation and discipline to go back to practicing every day, X amount of time reserved just to practice with this practice routine. That has been more or less my process in New York and I have liked it. I don't know how to describe it. It has both good and bad, but it's awesome. You just have to live there to understand.
Paula
And when you moved to New York, did you go for the musical opportunities that you could have? Or were there other reasons why you had gone to New York?
David
It was because of a conversation. And you and I talked about this before. "Did you make that decision to take up the saxophone because of a conversation on the phone with me and Camila?" Well, I had a conversation with a roommate, a tremendous bass player of mine, called Noam Tanzer. He's from Israel, a really nice guy, he has a really big heart. And he tells me: "Look, I think I'm leaving Boston." And I was like: "Why?" And he tells me: "Look, I'm doing really well here now, but I realized that most of my friends are in New York." And I said: "H**y s**t. Most of my friends are in New York too." I don't want to stay here alone." Boston is a very transient city. People come because it's a city for universities. So, there are a lot of universities. There's MIT, there's Harvard, there's Berklee, and they're all in the city. Those three are in the city. MIT is next to Berklee. I said, wait a minute "I don't want... I, you know... for me, music, if COVID taught us anything, it's that music is a community process. We all had the COVID era when at the beginning we started recording livestreams-well I never recorded a livestream, but they started calling you for remote recordings. And I recorded for a couple of reggae bands and a couple of salsa things, and I had my little microphone, and I recorded everything at my house pa, pin, pun, pan. I'd send it, and I was in a couple of projects, in a couple of EPs, in a couple of records, cool. But after the first few months, that saxophone went into the closet and didn't come out for the rest of the two years. Because music, if you don't go see live music, if you don't play music with people, it doesn't work for you, at least for me. There are people who have a... a fu****g fire inside that can, in the middle of a lockdown and a nuclear catastrophe, continue practicing the cello for 40,000 hours. But I'm not that kind of person, right, Paula? So I realized that I'm a person who thinks music depends a lot on the community factor. And that conversation I had in the kitchen with my roommates, it changed my perspective on going there. Once I arrived, I said: "Oh, wow dude. There are a lot of opportunities here." But I didn't do it for that. I did it because of that conversation. (How crazy) Super crazy. (But what about...?)
Paula
And right now you're well, looking for your musical opportunities too, but you also have other jobs, right? Like, with kids? (Yes) What do you teach?
David
Well, I teach music classes, but I also teach math classes. And I teach… basically it's ENL. For immigrant children, teaching them language. But very young, like second grade, phonetics, helping them with language with books that are specially made so that they know how phonetics work in English coming from Spanish. And helping a lot with those immigrant kids, because a huge wave of immigration came when Texas sent all those kids to New York on buses. And they call it a migrant crisis in New York, and well, I've been on demand. Those of us who were already in the system, we were teaching... I was teaching math and they said to me: "Hey, you speak Spanish?" And I said: "Yeah, I was Puertorrican". "You're Puertorrican?" And I said: "I didn't even know it was a good thing to be Puertorrican". And they started laughing. "Stop man, you being silly. I'm just saying you are native speaker?" And I was like, "Of course, don't you see my thick accent man? Like, of course I'm a native speaker. Like, I literally like..." So I started doing that and it's been quite gratifying, especially for the Latino kids. It's really funny because the music classes are super cool and I like them, but I've also really enjoyed simply helping the Latino community get settled. They started giving me job opportunities as a life skills coach. And basically I do workshops for parents and in Puerto Rican words, I'm teaching them to "josear." I tell them: "Look, did you get Medicaid?" And they say: "No, because I'm an immigrant from Venezuela." "Hey, your immigration status lets you get Medicaid. You can have the health plan this and that." "No, but really?" And I’m like: "Girl, get on with your thing sweetheart, because I'm not going to last a lifetime. Hey, come on." And I say: "Hey, get this document, get that, remember that they give you this. You can do this. Don't stay in the shelter for so long because then they'll do this to you. You have to renew." And they're like: "But how do you know all this?" "Sweetheart, move on. Get on with your thing, get on with it." And they pay me very well for that. It blew my mind. Those kinds of super random opportunities. I’m thinking: "Are these gringos paying me hustle? And for, are they paying me to teach other people how to hustle?". Oh my goodness." So, I've had those job opportunities, I teach music classes, I teach math classes, and life skills classes, and ENL. They have helped me with the transition because it takes a break-in period when you arrive in New York. You just arrived, and you're waiting for the "stews" to start to take off. I've been... I've been super happy about the situation of the "stews." But anyway, you have to have something that helps you at the moment until you can live completely from the "stew." Which in New York is something that is super possible. You can live completely from the "stew." You don't even have to teach classes or anything. What a lot of people do is that they do both. It's a bit of a grind, they live off "stews" and give their steady class hours and live comfortably. That gives you a good income. Because if you teach at a university, you're earning two hundred thousand a year plus what you earn in the stews and what you play at the festivals. You're making money. But let's go step by step.
Paula
I want to make a quick clarification of what "stew" is, just in case there are people who don't know. Basically, it's playing at a... I mean, like an independent job, right? (Of course) I mean, you go. You play, for example, at a wedding, or at a graduation, or at a night, a few hours in a restaurant, etc.
David
Of course. Mexicans call it a "tocada", a "tocada". Or they simply call it a gig, like they're (a gig) out there, everyone calls it a gig...
Paula
Yes, a gig. I think it's more normal. And well, to kind of wrap this up a bit. I wanted to ask you a few questions because I really feel that on the one hand, our pre-music education has been super important and has influenced many of the things we've done in our careers. And I feel that what you're doing now, like your secondary job, so to speak, really comes from the fact that you had an incredible education.
David
Incredible.
Paula
And sometimes I've asked myself if having been in such a demanding school as the one we were in has an influence on our way of seeing music as well. Sometimes I think, could it be that I'm always this demanding, one hundred percent? Have I always been like this? Or is it that I also grew up in this place where they had such high expectations of you, that when I finally found something that was what I wanted, it was what I wanted to study, it was like things transferred from: "Oh, it's not just Math or Spanish exams, etc. But now it's in my... in my musical education." So I wanted to ask you (of course) if you had ever considered it as something that had influenced you as well.
David
Well, look, no. I never, I had never... I had never thought about it. I think it has to do with... I hate these kinds of answers when they give them. I hate them. I hate myself for saying it right now. But it has to do with both because you know my mom... my mom questioned me when I brought a B home. Do you understand me? "Look, Mom, I got an 88." "But why? And I was like: "Um, eh... because what happens is that the teacher is really messy..." And she... do you understand me? So, I think it has to do with our situation at home, but it also has to do with school. It's an environment that pushes you. But in my case, it wasn't so much that it pushed me because at the UHS I was a real mess. I did whatever I wanted. I didn't... yes, I was messy. I think it was more than one place, for example, again Néstor. Néstor... I don't know if we talked... he was our choir teacher. Maybe we talked about him in one of the first takes that was cut off.
Paula
I think you did mention him.
David
Néstor Hernández was my music teacher in high school and… man, I owe him everything. The teacher of teachers, an incredible human being. Incredible. I mean, looking back, how annoying I was… I… I was playing the cuatro during his lunch hour and I wouldn’t let him eat lunch. And I would say to him: “but teacher, am I doing this?” And he would keep teaching me during his lunch hour. Look, a student does that to me today, I say to him: “dude, calm down, I’ll tell you when I start working. Don’t worry about this… let me finish this meal with cod here and we’ll talk about solo calmly.” But no, he would put down his plate and teach me in his free time. So, I’ve always cared about him like… subconsciously I’ve never put it into words until now, but I always… I wanted to make him proud. (Mmm) Like… he was always like a, like a second paternal figure. I say second because I was lucky enough to have an incredible father. I mean, my dad is super cool. But my musical dad, Néstor. And... I don't know. It wasn't so much pressure. It was more like a pressure... it was a pressure that the school gave me. It was more like a pressure that I gave myself. I can't let them down. This guy took me and taught me all these instruments, and he took his time and energy, and he did extracurricular things that he didn't have to do for me. And he's always loved me a lot, so I want to do right by him. And still to this day. When I started taking composition at Berklee, in my master's degree... I remembered all the choral arrangements that he did.
Paula
Yes, they were incredible.
David
At Berklee, no one comes close to Nestor Hernandez. No one, no one. And nothing, man... I think that the type of pressure was more internal. It came from me. To do that well.
Paula
Yes, well. Nothing, I wanted to know that part because, yes, at some point, I said: "Could it be that I've always been this intense? Or does this part also have a little to do with it? Add to that the fact that music itself is a pretty intense profession and full of criticism, observations, whatever you want to call it. So, I don't know if all that was mixed together, right? But...
David
That thing you say about music is very important, because my psychologist once told me: "be careful, because in music there is self-examination, you want to hold yourself to a high standard," right? "And that's good. But be careful when that becomes self-hurt, self-harm." The tone. Check the tone in which you speak to yourself and refer to yourself. Because you know... it gets to the point where the standard isn’t real, it's not fair for you, or for your circumstances. And we all have to be very careful to navigate those things in these musical environments. That's why I did my thesis on that. Because it's just that we're very exposed to this kind of stuff in this psychological world, right? We can do a lot of damage to ourselves as independent artists who studied or didn't study music. Just by pursuing music, you're exposed to all that. So be very careful and be very aware of the thoughts that are coming in, how you're thinking, what you're thinking about yourself if that's fair. Be very aware of that, man. I'm not asking you to read any psychology books. You know, just mindfulness, right? Be aware of how you address yourself. Because you wouldn't talk or feel that way about other people. I wouldn't feel that way about Paula, about Michael, about Bobby, about, you know, about close friends of mine. Why am I saying those things to myself? You know? So, watch them. Be careful.
Paula
Yes. And you know, I think that... well, the idea of this podcast is to open up a little bit like that. And for me, I think that our friendship has been... it has taken different courses and changes because really before they were conversations, I don't know, about the choir, about school. About the exam, or other things like that... well, from that time. But later when we started to take this seriously, I realized that through the years, we have talked a lot more about this part that is mental health and how it affects us in our profession, right? And I really think that you are one of my few musician friends with whom I have shared this. I feel that... that my problems with stage fright and all that, and the anxiety that it gives me, and my doubts and insecurities... I think they are obvious to... to people who know me. Although surprisingly, many people say: "But you never look like something's wrong. You almost look sort of intimidating." And I'm like: "what? I'm dying inside." But you are one of the few people (Yes) who has always known the whole side of Paula being scared. So, I take this opportunity to thank you because we talk about these things and you have really been a companion for me during these years as well.
David
Yes, yes. No, I completely understand what you... I mean, when I have anxiety attacks or panic attacks there are people that I say to: "Look, I had to leave because..." "But you looked like the life of the party. You came in smiling." "Yeah, dude, but I started feeling bad. I started to feel really bad. I mean, literally my heart, the watch told me that my heart was at 1800 bmp and my pulse... I was sweating. I couldn't breathe so, maybe I looked one way, but... hello. You're playing the cello. You're not going to just start screaming in the middle of the performance. Ow!, what do people expect from you? That's... that's super internal. You feel like you're dying, but you're going to try to literally chill out. For two reasons: so as not to alarm yourself and so as not to alarm anyone. Because the more you freak out the worse it will be. But also, you don't want to make a fool of yourself in the middle of Carnegie Hall and be like... "give me water!" It doesn't work like that.
Paula
No. Well, I think this is a good point to close this episode. But thanks for being here. Again, thanks for listening to this episode. Thank you David for sharing your time with me and with the people who take the time to listen to this. What I really want is for more people to be aware that all these things happen, right? They are not things that are talked about all the time, but I live along with my friends, right? And I know that other people live it but they don't share it. So I hope that with this initiative there will be more people who feel that what they live is normal. Thanks David, bye! (That's right)
David
Yes, sir!
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